Belial Chastain
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 |
 Posted: Tuesday, 19 July 2005 07:10PM |
For a strictly roll-playing standpoint, here is a rough sketch of a character concept:
Human
Str 13
Dex 16
Con 13
Int 13
Wis 12
Cha 9
1 Fi1: Weapon Pro-exotic, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus-Katanna
2 Fi2
3 Fi3: Dodge, Mobility
4 Fi4: (Dex +1)
5 Fi5: Expertise
6 Fi6: Spring Attack
7 Fi7: Whirlwind
8 Mn1: (Dex +1), Cleave, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Fury of Blows,
Evasion, Unarmored Wis + Dex to AC
9 WM1: Toughness, Weapon of Choice, Ki Dmg
10 Mn2: Deflect Arrows
11 WM2
12 Mn3: (Dex+1), Ambidexterity, Monk Speed, Still Mind
13 WM3
14 Mn4
15 WM4: 2 Weapon Fighting
16 Mn5: (Dex+1) Purity of Body
17 WM5: Increased Multiplier, Superior Weapon Focus
18 Mn6: Knockdown, Improved Knockdown
19 WM6
20 WM7: Ki Critical
human Fighter7, Monk6, Weapon Master7 (continue to level as WM)
Dual wield: Katana and Kama (would the kama receive the monks unarmed attack bonuses in this case?)
Side question: Is it possible to weapon focus: unarmed, and dual wield:unarmed? And if so, would it benefit the monk levels at all?
Progression: As a human, highest level not a factor in xp penalty, but since WM is a prestige class, does that not factor in either? (This would require a rethink of the order of progression)
I play solo (story of my life), so PVP isn't a facor. However, I keep switching characters and modules because they're never quite up to what I imagine other possibilities of being (if that makes sense). | 
|
Stravinsky00
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
From: New York City |
Posted: Tuesday, 19 July 2005 07:23PM |
Quote: Posted 07/19/05 19:10:39 (GMT) by Belial Chastain
Dual wield: Katana and Kama (would the kama receive the monks unarmed attack bonuses in this case?)
Kamas retain the monk attack schedule even when dual wielding. Now, if you mean that you have a katana in your main hand and a kama in your offhand...that I'm not sure of. My instinct would be no. But honestly, I would dual wield kamas if I were you. One of the biggest advantages of the monk/fighter/WM build is the extra monk attacks, both from the monk's different attack schedule and from flurry of blows, which only works with unarmed or kama in the main hand.
Quote: Side question: Is it possible to weapon focus: unarmed, and dual wield:unarmed? And if so, would it benefit the monk levels at all?
Weapon Focus yes, Dual wield no. You also can't select unarmed as your Weapon of Choice for Weapon Master.
Quote: Progression: As a human, highest level not a factor in xp penalty, but since WM is a prestige class, does that not factor in either? (This would require a rethink of the order of progression)
Prestige Classes never count toward XP penalties. It's impossible for a human build to have an XP penalty unless it has 3 base classes (and it may not even then).
SteveEdited By Stravinsky00 on 07/19/05 19:26 | |
|
Noran the Axe
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
Joined: 28 Jun 2002 |
Posted: Tuesday, 19 July 2005 07:37PM | |
Two-weapon fighting with a Katana/Kama combination using a monk would result in the standard attack progression instead of the monk progression (-5 increments). However, using 2 kamas retains the progression (even with the off-hand). I've also found that (though this may have been fixed in the last patch) using a kama in the primary hand, you can use ANY light weapon in the secondary hand and retain the monk progression with BOTH weapons. Like I said though, I haven't tested this in 1.66 ... it may have been fixed as I would consider this a "bug". | |
|
Belial Chastain
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 |
Posted: Tuesday, 19 July 2005 08:38PM |
"Kamas retain the monk attack schedule even when dual wielding. Now, if you mean that you have a katana in your main hand and a kama in your offhand...that I'm not sure of. My instinct would be no. But honestly, I would dual wield kamas if I were you. One of the biggest advantages of the monk/fighter/WM build is the extra monk attacks, both from the monk's different attack schedule and from flurry of blows, which only works with unarmed or kama in the main hand."
so since kamas in a monks hand= unarmed combat, is it even necessary to get ambidexterity and dual wield for kamas? | |
|
Youdontwanttoknowit
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
Joined: 25 Aug 2003 |
Posted: Tuesday, 19 July 2005 08:40PM |
Quote: Posted 07/19/05 20:38:39 (GMT) by Belial Chastain
so since kamas in a monks hand= unarmed combat, is it even necessary to get ambidexterity and dual wield for kamas?
Yes, that is necessary. | |
|
Stravinsky00
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
From: New York City |
Posted: Tuesday, 19 July 2005 08:43PM |
Quote: Posted 07/19/05 20:38:39 (GMT) by Belial Chastain
"Kamas retain the monk attack schedule even when dual wielding. Now, if you mean that you have a katana in your main hand and a kama in your offhand...that I'm not sure of. My instinct would be no. But honestly, I would dual wield kamas if I were you. One of the biggest advantages of the monk/fighter/WM build is the extra monk attacks, both from the monk's different attack schedule and from flurry of blows, which only works with unarmed or kama in the main hand."
so since kamas in a monks hand= unarmed combat, is it even necessary to get ambidexterity and dual wield for kamas?
If you want to use 2 kamas, yes. Unarmed attacks do not count as dual wielding, even if you have ambi and Two weapon fighting. But if you want to dual wield kamas, you definitely need those two feats. Or, more correctly, you can dual wield without them, but you'll have huge penalties. You can, but you definitely do not want to dual wield without getting ambidexterity and two weapon fighting.
Steve | |
|
Belial Chastain
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 |
Posted: Tuesday, 19 July 2005 10:16PM |
OK. Sloooowly now...
would a monk fighting with 2 kamas, who has ambidexterity and dual wield do more damage armed than unarmed? (depends I know)
do weapon proficency- unarmed stack with monk bonuses? (or would it be more effective going for more monk levels than spliting focus with fighter? is the trade off really worth it?)
kamas in a medium sized character's hands are light, would daggers or kukri (which are wee tiny) be devoid of penalties? (and as equally as effective if given the proper training?) Yeah, I saw that epic character build, which is fine and dandy for PVP, but when soloing, somehow not as attractive..
thanks for the input! | |
|
Stravinsky00
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
From: New York City |
Posted: Tuesday, 19 July 2005 11:25PM |
Quote: Posted 07/19/05 22:16:33 (GMT) by Belial Chastain
OK. Sloooowly now...
would a monk fighting with 2 kamas, who has ambidexterity and dual wield do more damage armed than unarmed? (depends I know)
Ok, so...as you know, a monk's potential unarmed damage increases with monk levels. It starts at 1d6 and reaches 1d20 by level 16. So, if you have a lot of monk levels, your punch can do a lot of damage. But, it's still very variable. You could do 20 damage, you could do 1. Plus, the kama dual wielder is going to have more attacks per round, and in general is going to land more hits each round. That balances the weaker damage per hit. Plus, you can't be a weapon master in unarmed strike, and weapon master levels can make you a powerful melee'er.
Long story short, I would go with the kama dual wielding monk/fighter/weapon master rather than the unarmed.
Quote: do weapon proficency- unarmed stack with monk bonuses? (or would it be more effective going for more monk levels than spliting focus with fighter? is the trade off really worth it?)
I assume you mean Weapon Specialization? The extra damage does stack. If you meant Weapon Focus, then the +1 to your AB works too. Fighter is a nice multiclass for monk, because you can get higher AB and an extra attack that way, you can get weapon spec, and the extra feats help with dual wielding.
Quote: kamas in a medium sized character's hands are light, would daggers or kukri (which are wee tiny) be devoid of penalties? (and as equally as effective if given the proper training?)
For a medium sized character, if you have ambidexterity and two weapon fighting, and you have a light or smaller weapon in your offhand, you get a -2 penalty to your attack bonus for each hand. Using a tiny weapon doesn't get rid of that penalty, if that's what you mean. Based on Noran's experience, it does seem like you could use a dagger in the offhand and still get your monk AB, but in general, that won't be advisable. You're going to have weapon focus (kama), weapon spec (kama), probably improved critical (kama), and with the weapon master, weapon of choice (kama). Your going to be better off using the weapon you've mastered in both hands, especially since the dagger's tiny nature doesn't help you. Maybe if you found a really powerful dagger relative to your kama, it might be worth it for a while, but other than that...the more you use the weapon you're the best with, the better.
SteveEdited By Stravinsky00 on 07/19/05 23:29 | |
|
scott1uol
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 |
Posted: Wednesday, 20 July 2005 07:22PM |
Quote: Posted 07/19/05 19:10:39 (GMT) by Belial Chastain
1 Fi1: Weapon Pro-exotic, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus-Katanna
2 Fi2
3 Fi3: Dodge, Mobility
Your feat progression is slightly off - fighters get a bonus feat at lvl 1, then lvl 2, and then every 2 lvls hence (ie 4th, 6th etc) - not 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th etc as it might appear from the rulebook... | |
|
Stravinsky00
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
From: New York City |
Posted: Wednesday, 20 July 2005 07:28PM |
Quote: Posted 07/20/05 19:22:24 (GMT) by scott1uol Quote: Posted 07/19/05 19:10:39 (GMT) by Belial Chastain
1 Fi1: Weapon Pro-exotic, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus-Katanna
2 Fi2
3 Fi3: Dodge, Mobility
Your feat progression is slightly off - fighters get a bonus feat at lvl 1, then lvl 2, and then every 2 lvls hence (ie 4th, 6th etc) - not 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th etc as it might appear from the rulebook...
Heh, you know, I didn't even think to look if the feats were actually taken where they could be taken. You're absolutely correct.
Steve | |
|
Belial Chastain
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 |
Posted: Wednesday, 20 July 2005 08:00PM |
"Your feat progression is slightly off - fighters get a bonus feat at lvl 1, then lvl 2, and then every 2 lvls hence (ie 4th, 6th etc) - not 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th etc as it might appear from the rulebook..."
interesting... so a pure fighter ends up getting one more feat at level 40 than an oddsis (as written) 19 at level 39...
you guys rock. thank you much. | |
|
Tattoed Monk
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 09 Jun 2005 |
Posted: Wednesday, 20 July 2005 08:13PM |
Quote: Posted 07/19/05 22:16:33 (GMT) by Belial Chastain
OK. Sloooowly now...
would a monk fighting with 2 kamas, who has ambidexterity and dual wield do more damage armed than unarmed? (depends I know)
do weapon proficency- unarmed stack with monk bonuses? (or would it be more effective going for more monk levels than spliting focus with fighter? is the trade off really worth it?)
As others have noted, the weapon proficiencies do stack for either unarmed or kama. If you go with unarmed, you want to just take a few levels of fighter (to get weapon spec), then max your monk levels to increase the unarmed damage (you want at least 16 monk levels in the build to get to the max 1-20 damage). If you go with kamas, you can stop much earlier and take more fighter/WM levels. Note that more monk levels do also have some other goodies, like SR starting at level 12, and empty body at level 18, that quite useful even to a kama wielder.
As to which does more damage, depends on what kamas are available on the server. The kama's average damage is 3.5, unarmed averages 10.5. Since monk gloves don't add their bonus to damage, only AB, a kama of +7 will do the same average damage as an unarmed attack. At +8 or more, the kama does more damage on average. With dual wielding, you get 2 more attacks per round (max of 10 with haste and flurry vs. 8 for unarmed), so if they all hit the kama can take the advantage even earlier (note that against high-AC opponents, the extra -2 AB from dual-wielding may erase that advantage, especially if the available gloves have a higher to hit bonus than the kamas, as is the case in the OC). | |
|
Belial Chastain
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 |
Posted: Tuesday, 26 July 2005 11:43PM |
Do monk speed and the epic feat blinding speed stack?
what about self concealment and empty body?
Damage reduction and perfect self?
Does ki strike work with a kama?
If the search forums feature worked less literally, I might not need to ask all of these questions, as I'm sure I'm not the first... | |
|
|
