Chris..S
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Beigetreten: 18 Okt 2002 |
 Gepostet: Samstag, 30 Oktober 2004 04:24 |
Spetnatz, can you add something unique to one of the parts of the character we can check with scripting.
e.g. stick a "%" at the end of the deity field.
a kludge like that would at least give servers that did wish to exclude characters modified with your tool something to check on. |
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NarcissusLair
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Beigetreten: 19 Feb 2003
Von: WA |
Gepostet: Samstag, 30 Oktober 2004 04:34 |
Quote: Posted 10/30/04 16:24:27 (GMT) by Chris..S
Spetnatz, can you add something unique to one of the parts of the character we can check with scripting.
e.g. stick a "%" at the end of the deity field.
a kludge like that would at least give servers that did wish to exclude characters modified with your tool something to check on.
Ah thats a good idea. Hmm but some of us use the deity field, so maybe its better to set the age field to some value..hmm but then people would use the old version of the program before this was enforced.....dang
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Chris..S
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Beigetreten: 18 Okt 2002 |
Gepostet: Samstag, 30 Oktober 2004 04:38 |
Quote: Posted 10/30/04 16:34:46 (GMT) by NarcissusLair Quote: Posted 10/30/04 16:24:27 (GMT) by Chris..S
Spetnatz, can you add something unique to one of the parts of the character we can check with scripting.
e.g. stick a "%" at the end of the deity field.
a kludge like that would at least give servers that did wish to exclude characters modified with your tool something to check on.
Ah thats a good idea. Hmm but some of us use the deity field, so maybe its better to set the age field to some value..hmm but then people would use the old version of the program before this was enforced.....dang
Yes, thats a problem if people have already got it. But it should cut down the numbers. I suggested Deity as it can be edited. So modules that accept the character can always amend the deity field by removing that character. Age works for me though. |
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Candarie
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Beigetreten: 16 Sep 2004 |
Gepostet: Samstag, 30 Oktober 2004 07:31 |
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The problem is, if Spetznaz can do it, then as someone said earlier "The cat is out of the bag" -- it can and will be redone, even if Spetznaz agrees to booby trap his version with a marked file. |
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Georg Zoeller
Senior Technical Designer
Beigetreten: 27 Mai 2003
Von: Austin, TX |
Gepostet: Sonntag, 31 Oktober 2004 12:40 |
We will look into this once there is time.
_________________
georg zoeller
senior rules and systems monkey
[da | me]
My custom NWN content
ceterum censeo ambulatiuncula esse delen |
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Algernon's Ghost
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Beigetreten: 29 Mär 2003 |
Gepostet: Sonntag, 31 Oktober 2004 07:11 |
I have to agree that SERVERVAULT set-ups should remain sacred. Isn't that the point of a servervault system?. No one but the server admins should have access to characters stored on a servervault system.
My players will not appreciate anyone showing up with wings or tails, and neither will I. We will be deleting any characters altered by this tool, and repeated attempts will earn bannings.
_________________
The Vast, a PW for serious, dedicated role-players.
Role Play / Server: Forgotten Realms / Module: The Vast
The ends never justify the means. The means shape the ends; you become what you do. |
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frber
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Beigetreten: 29 Aug 2002
Von: Sweden |
Gepostet: Montag, 01 November 2004 06:27 |
Don't think you can access and modify characters stored on a server vault. Not easily anyway. However the characters are generated clientside, and can be given whatever apperance, feats, stats, and items you wish before its sent to the server. Leto works just as well as any other tool. Its not like server vaults have ever been even remotely secure.
The best protection is probably that you can't remove the evidence once you did cheat. And if it takes months to level a character you always risk getting caught and having the character deleted (and a nice ban) once you have gotten the character to high level. |
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Spetznaz_ADMIRAL
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Mass Effect PC
Beigetreten: 10 Jul 2002
Von: Australia |
Gepostet: Montag, 01 November 2004 09:21 |
Guild Wars rox...
Wings/Tails have always been set client side as 0, this setting was just never made available in character creation before, and it has always been sent to the server each time a character was made. There is no extender tool<->server interaction taking place at all.
Yeh a watermark variable would have been a good idea I guess, but implementing restrictions on new versions would just make ppl use the old ones and make any new ones a waste of time.
The solution has to be generic and basically server-side.
I think if Georg Zoeller found the time to add scripting support for these variables it would solve everyone's problems, my tool wouldn't be needed anymore and we'd all be extremly happy with just a few new functions in the toolset to handle these variables.
Cheers,
 |
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Bachaz
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Beigetreten: 27 Apr 2004 |
Gepostet: Montag, 01 November 2004 09:28 |
Here's the Moneo script I used to check wings and tails in my servervault (I'm "the guy"..heh).
Because we have characters with this legitimately, I didn't write the script to make any automatic changes (though Moneo is capable of doing this).
Rather, it searches the vault for any character with wings and/or tail set to non-default (0) and outputs a CSV report with the player and character name.
I just pull this into Excel and do a manual scan. It's not terribly time consuming to do this manually as Moneo is pretty fast - this script was able to scan about 8000 vault folders and check the BIC values in about 10 minutes (running across a newwork drive as well, so a local run would probably be faster).
Note that this script uses Moneo ver. 4 - build 18 syntax. Current builds use a different syntax.
Cheers,
Bachaz
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Gomisan
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
NWN 2
Mass Effect PC
Beigetreten: 10 Jun 2002
Von: Adelaide, Australia |
Gepostet: Montag, 01 November 2004 10:31 |
Perhaps I missed it.. but I've never heard of Moneo. Is it a program? A language?
Googling it comes up wth Rafael Moneo.. the architect, and i'm sure he's not going to help. |
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Xalran
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Beigetreten: 29 Mär 2003 |
Gepostet: Montag, 01 November 2004 11:59 |
Great, and offline way to check, in a lot of server that's not an option. What is needed is an online way to do it.
Wouldn't it be better to have the possibility that chars with 0XP and tails/wings be made invalid ?
That would be the easiest way to plug that hole if Bioware can do it.
or wouldn't it be better that the creator of that software, as he told many times, gives us the way to do checks online through scripting. |
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Bachaz
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Beigetreten: 27 Apr 2004 |
Gepostet: Montag, 01 November 2004 12:56 |
NWScript does not have a method to check for tails/wings as of now, so on-line checking using standard scripting is not possible.
The only way to do this online at this time is using NWNX-Leto which also uses the LetoScript - so what I posted will work on-line as well with a few modifications to return boolean values which can be used to boot/ban/delete the character or whatever.
I posted it as an off-line simply because not everyone uses NWNX, and if they do, not everyone uses NWNX-Leto.
There might be a better solution than this, but I haven't been able to come up with one at this point.
<shameless_plug>
Moneo is part of the Leto package. Details can be found at: http://weathersong.infopop.cc - Dragonsong's homepage.
I use it primarily for reporting, but that's a very simple use. It's quite powerful and incredibly useful for all kinds of things - really a must have if you have to manage a large vault to any degree.
DS did a great job on his toolset, and he's a really nice guy too. His site's certainly worth a visit.
</shameless_plug>
Lastly, my thoughts on the CCE - kudos for writing the code. Took some imagination and skill to do it.
However, playing around with servervault character creation is a bad idea. The default character creation process is a known entity with known options for a player to create his or her character. Deviation from this really plays havok with something that should be the eclusive purview of the servervault admin.
What's really unfortunate here is that the author didn't heed the reaction to his using this tool during testing. Apparently, he didn't get a warm welcome by many admins per his documentation.
Why did he think the reaction would be better once it's been released to the general public?
Cheers,
Bachaz |
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Algernon's Ghost
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Beigetreten: 29 Mär 2003 |
Gepostet: Montag, 01 November 2004 08:15 |
Quote: Posted 11/01/04 06:27:53 (GMT) by frber
Don't think you can access and modify characters stored on a server vault. Not easily anyway. However the characters are generated clientside, and can be given whatever apperance, feats, stats, and items you wish before its sent to the server. Leto works just as well as any other tool. Its not like server vaults have ever been even remotely secure.
I should have made myself more clear, ELC restrictions will filter out all the tweaked feats, skills, and stats; I don't believe it will catch wings, tails, and other appearances, will it?
So, yeah, if we had scripting access to these model parts, that would be great, and it would solve everyone's issues, on both sides of the argument.
_________________
The Vast, a PW for serious, dedicated role-players.
Role Play / Server: Forgotten Realms / Module: The Vast
The ends never justify the means. The means shape the ends; you become what you do. |
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_kensai_
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Jade Empire
NWN 2
Beigetreten: 22 Jan 2004
Von: Bay Area, CA |
Gepostet: Montag, 01 November 2004 11:29 |
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But not everyone has ELC turned on. Personally, I just want to be able to insure that new (0xp) characters were generated fairly. I can handle the rest by doing checksums through NWNX and booting anyone with a hacked player file. |
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Spetznaz_ADMIRAL
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Mass Effect PC
Beigetreten: 10 Jul 2002
Von: Australia |
Gepostet: Dienstag, 02 November 2004 11:08 |
Why wouldn't they be generated fairly? Hackers probably have 101 ways to cheat but that has nothing to do with this tool, and any hacker with an ounce on intelligence wont be walking around with wings or a tail to draw attention to himself, even though they could obviously do it.
The users are legitimate players wanting fun and anyone banning them exclusively because they might be cheating is brain dead. Context is a reason, being crosseyed enough to think 6 boxes change every stat, and then being 2 lazy to check and find out they can't is not.
If you want a general tip on server security from my own personal experience do not ever rely on ELC, put everything in the on_entry script that fires when oPC has zero xp. Check feats/stats and remove all their items/gold and the server takes care of the rest 4 u. If you do that right you wont need 3rd party software unless you want to check for wings/tails that aren't supported in NWScript.
Hope that helps you _kensai_Edited By Spetznaz_ADMIRAL on 11/02/04 11:11 |
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