jamincollins
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 |
 Posted: Tuesday, 18 January 2005 11:52PM |
I've found a way to install NWN on a Mac using just the PC Platinum edition, Mac updates, and the original Mac demo.
My question is are there any legal concerns in doing so?
I do not want to pirate Bioware's game. In fact I'm looking at picking up 2 additional copies (already own 2 Platinum DVD sets) just so my wife and I can have NWN available on our iBooks.
However, I do have a hard time stomaching MacSoft's prices of $220 for two complete sets vs the $60-80 for two Platinum Edition DVDs.
Please don't ask for details of how the installation was done until the legality question is answered. Once it has been I'll happily provide the details of the installation (assuming it's legal). |
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jamincollins
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 |
Posted: Thursday, 20 January 2005 12:52AM |
Since no one has jumped up to say that this is illegal (and why), here's how you can install NWN on a Mac using only the Platinum PC edition, Mac Demo, and Mac updates:
Insert your Platinum edition DVD in your drive and extract the three zip files (Data_Shared.zip, Language_data.zip, and Language_update.zip) into the same folder.
Extract the Mac tech demo and mount the disk image. From the disk image you need to copy the contents of "miles" folder into the "miles" folder in your installation. Additionally, you'll need to place the "Bink Carbon Library" from the main folder in the top of your install.
Now install the three Mac updates.
Now you should be able to play NWN. |
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Llandru
Moderator
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
From: Toronto, Canada |
Posted: Thursday, 20 January 2005 01:36AM |
I e-mailed BioWare yesterday to ask them to have a look at this; I expect they're a little busy what with the NWN2 forums opening here, but I'm hopeful they'll respond soon.
I would note that, like all PC installs, even if this turns out to be legal it isn't officially supported (i.e. no tech support).
_________________
Have you read the Mac NWN FAQ today?Edited By Llandru on 01/20/05 01:42 |
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Jay Watamaniuk
Community Manager
Joined: 19 Nov 2001
From: Edmonton, Alberta |
Posted: Thursday, 20 January 2005 09:11PM |
Howdy- I am taking a look into it at the moment. Sounds very wierd.  |
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Jay Watamaniuk
Community Manager
Joined: 19 Nov 2001
From: Edmonton, Alberta |
Posted: Thursday, 20 January 2005 09:51PM |
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I'm no lawyer but it seems to be that if you have purchased a legal copy of NWN then I don't think too many people can get excited about what is done with it as long as the EULA is followed. |
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everman7
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Joined: 21 Mar 2003 |
Posted: Friday, 21 January 2005 04:02AM |
The only thing about this topic that I feel uneasy about is that by not suppporting MACSOFT, you are not assuring that they will continue to create mac games.
It may be legal, but think of how many Mac users will not need to buy a Mac version, therefore killing MACSOFT's sales.
Pretty soon there wont be a MAC demo for any of these games.
Lets think of the morality of this and maybe kill this whole thread...or just call it Illegal.
I don't mean to keep jamincollins from doing what he's figured out to do, but maybe we shouldn't let the rest of the world know about it.
If macsoft decides to create a demo for the NWN2, soon to be released, there is nothing stopping people from doing this same thing with NWN2, therefore, Macsoft could very well loose there shirts for doing all the work.
Just my 2 cents. |
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Brab
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
From: Grenoble, France |
Posted: Friday, 21 January 2005 12:36PM |
I agree with you that it's good to support Macsoft. However when I switched from Linux to Mac a few months ago I did not buy all everything again, but used my linux installation and kept the same CD keys.
If NWN2 comes out for the Mac, I'll definitely buy it then (and won't buy the PC version as I only own macs now). But I don't feel bad not buying a second copy of the game to only use one  |
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jamincollins
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 |
Posted: Friday, 21 January 2005 04:06PM |
Quote: Posted 01/21/05 04:02:49 (GMT) by everman7
The only thing about this topic that I feel uneasy about is that by not suppporting MACSOFT, you are not assuring that they will continue to create mac games.
I'd have no problem supporting MACSOFT if it appeared that they were supporting their Mac users. At this point it doesn't. It looks like they are in it for the money. The price on the MS PC (and therefor Linux) versions have dropped considerably. With the Platinum DVD version now being available for a mere $30-40. While MACSOFT's prices are still the original release prices. This is horrendous for those looking to stay legal and have NWN available on both their Desktop and Laptop (which is what started this for me). The difference is $90 per install for a total of $180. That's not an insignificant difference. If MACSOFT had kept their prices more in line with the MS side and/or considered releasing a Gold or Platinum version like the MS side did things would most likely be different.
Quote: Posted 01/21/05 04:02:49 (GMT) by everman7
Lets think of the morality of this and maybe kill this whole thread...or just call it Illegal.
You can't just call something illegal because you don't like it.
Quote: Posted 01/21/05 04:02:49 (GMT) by everman7
I don't mean to keep jamincollins from doing what he's figured out to do, but maybe we shouldn't let the rest of the world know about it.
So other Mac users get shafted on the price? If MACSOFT had a more reasonal price (say $60 vs $110 for a complete set) I would never have looked for alternatives, I'd have simply opened my wallet and supported them. |
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everman7
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Joined: 21 Mar 2003 |
Posted: Friday, 21 January 2005 07:53PM |
I'm not saying that is Illegal, I am saying it is immoral.
If you think about it, the reason that macsofts games have stayed so high in price is that someone found a way to use the PC expansions instead of the mac ones. It cost Macsoft a LOT of money to do all that work, and few people are buying them since the PC versions are less money. That's probably part of the reason why they had to sell out to Destineer.
All I'm saying is that if we want more mac games, support mac gaming companies instead of using PC software just because it works.
I understand your frustration about the money, it seems ALL mac games stay high in price. I am even thinking of building a PC again because of all the game prices being so low for the PC. I too am tired of waiting 2 years until a mac version comes out. I too am tired of seeing only screenshots and hearing of how great games are that I cannot play.
I just don't think that this thread should be posted because you are giving the public a way to cheat macsoft out of a lot of money, that is all! |
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msykes
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Joined: 14 Oct 2002 |
Posted: Friday, 21 January 2005 10:39PM |
Similar arguments came up before about price differences (albeit smaller ones) just in Mac vs. PC expansions.
In a perfect world, I would plunk down 100$ (or whatever) for the full Mac Version. But then again, in a perfect world I would be rich. Then again, in a perfect world the Mac version would not be more expensive than the PC version.
But none of us live in a perfect world. So if you are rich, and you can afford the 100$, then by all means support MacSoft. The rest of us will try to achieve some kind of balance between doing what we think is right, and not getting ripped off.
Yeah, I consider 100$ for what is essentially one game, a rip-off. It doesn't seem so bad if you started playing a year or two ago and paid for the expansions over time, but think about a Mac user who wants to start playign NWN online right now. Yikes, that's a pretty big investment all at once for a computer game.
msykes |
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jamincollins
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 |
Posted: Saturday, 22 January 2005 12:11AM |
Quote: Posted 01/21/05 19:53:30 (GMT) by everman7
I'm not saying that is Illegal, I am saying it is immoral.
Morality is subjective. In essence morality is a sense of right and wrong. So you claim it is immoral (hence wrong) of me to provide instructions on how to use the PC version on a Mac. You are entitled to that opinion.
However, I posit that it is immoral for MACSOFT to charge what it's charging for the Mac version. Those prices are so far out of line with the PC/Linux version that it would be wrong to support MACSOFT by paying them.
Quote: Posted 01/21/05 19:53:30 (GMT) by everman7
If you think about it, the reason that macsofts games have stayed so high in price is that someone found a way to use the PC expansions instead of the mac ones. It cost Macsoft a LOT of money to do all that work, and few people are buying them since the PC versions are less money.
I seriously doubt that most Mac users would look to using the PC versions if there were a timely and reasonably (within 25-30%) priced release of the Mac versions. Hell, I know I wouldn't. For a complete NWN set you're looking at a 175-266% markup (working from a $30-40 Platinum edition vs the $110 set from MACSOFT). That's an insane markup.
In this case my choice was between purchasing a 2nd NWN set for both my wife and I (thus supporting Bioware) to use on our iBooks or not having it available on our iBooks at all (thus not supporting Bioware). Paying $220 (remember 2 full sets) to MACSOFT was not going to happen, simply due to their prices. They (MACSOFT) ruled out my purchase by keeping their prices high.
Quote: Posted 01/21/05 19:53:30 (GMT) by everman7
All I'm saying is that if we want more mac games, support mac gaming companies instead of using PC software just because it works.
I'm all for supporting the companies. I purchased every single Loki title that even remotely interested myself or my wife. I did this because I wanted to support them and because they appeared to understand that to be supported they needed to have reasonably priced software. MACSOFT doesn't seem to understand the later. |
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Diomhdes
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Jade Empire:SE
Joined: 30 Sep 2003 |
Posted: Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:25AM |
Quote: Posted 01/21/05 19:53:30 (GMT) by everman7
I'm not saying that is Illegal, I am saying it is immoral.
If you think about it, the reason that macsofts games have stayed so high in price is that someone found a way to use the PC expansions instead of the mac ones. It cost Macsoft a LOT of money to do all that work, and few people are buying them since the PC versions are less money. That's probably part of the reason why they had to sell out to Destineer.
I think the reason Macsoft's prices stay so high is that the Mac market is small to begin with and that the licensing fees they have to pay stay high. In other words, they can't make a profit on volume, so they keep the prices high.
You're right, of course, in pointing out that buying a PC version of a game only makes the potential Mac market smaller than it already is, which is a terrible proposition.
However, and even though it might have been mainly licensing issues and not Macsoft's fault, they have released the expansion sets very very late.
Moreover, other Mac companies, when there is a big delay between the PC and Mac release, usually release the "deluxe" or "platinum" edition of the game right away, which makes paying a high price acceptable: we get more at once, even if late.
Again, Macsoft may not have and a choice in the matter, but from a consumer's POV, it doesn't matter.
I bought the original NWM from Macsoft. But when SoU came out and then HotU, I bought the PC expansions right away and played them right away: why wait for a then hypothetical Mac release?
If I had to purchase the game today, I probably would still buy at least one copy of the original NWN from Macsoft because that _original_ release contained a lot of mac-specific work and supporting Macsoft for that release makes sense, but I would also try to get the best deal on the expansions.
Because, contrary to what you seem to believe, apart from marketing and packaging costs, I don't think Macsoft has had to work very hard on those releases: after all, the PC versions worked fine to begin with! It's all a big licensing snafu.
Last, the Macsoft/Destineer saga has nothing to do with NWN sales -- or lack thereof -- that I know of. The _original_ NWN release is already from "Macsoft by Destineer". Destineer is a M$ backed venture using the Macsoft name for recognition and headed by one of the original Macsoft founders. Nothing wrong with that, mind you. But no need to feel guilty either.
To sum-up, supporting Macsoft makes sense. But waiting one to two years to play the expansions does not. And if I had to install NWM on a new Mac today and didn't care for "official" tech support I'd certainly get a Platinum DVD myself. However, if the Platinum edition existed as a Macsoft release, I'd be sure to buy that one instead of the PC release.
Aspyr releases "powerpacks" all the time, consolidating games and expansions in one reasonably-priced package. I'd buy a Platinum Mac release of NWN right away just for the convenience of it.
As someone else has mentioned, it's a question of balance. |
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ACS
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
From: Sydney |
Posted: Sunday, 23 January 2005 08:34PM |
Any suggestions on how to do this with the original NWN, plus separate expansions (all for PC)?
As above, I have purchased the game & exp packs (ages ago) but have now bought a new mac and would prefer not to buy the whole set again.
So far I'm pretty mac illiterate.. (mount disk image??) so new user instructions would be appreciated...
hopefully this doesn't offend anyone too much - i'm a longtime fan of the game, and a dedicated buyer (not copier) of games... |
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jamincollins
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 |
Posted: Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:00PM |
Quote: Posted 01/23/05 20:34:44 (GMT) by ACS
Any suggestions on how to do this with the original NWN, plus separate expansions (all for PC)?
I no longer have the CD version of the game. Once I purchased the DVD version I shipped our CD versions (2 original and SoU expansion sets) to our friends out of state.
The problem is mainly one of getting the data extracted. Without the CD versions to examine, I'm not sure how the data is stored on them, but I seem to remember them being in CAB files rather than ZIPs. If you could get the data extracted I would think the same overall solution would work.
Quote: Posted 01/23/05 20:34:44 (GMT) by ACS
So far I'm pretty mac illiterate.. (mount disk image??) so new user instructions would be appreciated...
It seems that a lot of Mac software is provided as a disk image (.dmg file). Normally the OS will automatically mount these files for you when you double click on them. Once mounted they normally show on your desktop as a drive. Once finished with them you can eject them. Mounting the image provides access to the files within it. |
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ACS
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
From: Sydney |
Posted: Sunday, 23 January 2005 09:42PM |
thanks.. that's correct they are in .cab files. so i need to figure out to to extract .cab on a mac. i guess google could help there.
Actually, i do have the files on my nwn install on my PC - which works fine. Do you think i could manually copy them off the pc onto the mac? i don't recognise the folder names you mention though. Bink Carbon library and miles didn't seem to be on the PC install from memory.
Other question is the source of the mach tech demo. Did that come on the platinum dvd? Could i download that from nwvault or here? |
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