Sakura23
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR Xbox
NWN 2
Lié: 03 nov 2004
De: United Kingdom |
 Posté: dimanche, 11 décembre 2005 02:27 |
downside of course being the 1.5x empowered strengh damage that really makes crits get to crazy levels.
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Sakura
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." |
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Lowlander
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
Lié: 29 aoû 2002
De: Ottawa, Canada |
Posté: dimanche, 11 décembre 2005 03:28 |
Quote: Posted 12/11/05 02:43:59 (GMT) by Vincet Amolyn
Which do you think is better and why?
I love 2-handed weapons and the Great Axe and Sword are my favorites. After switching back and forth on a number of characters I would say:
Greataxe only when I was going to be Weapon master and only if I felt there was a high probablity of finding Keen weapons. And even then only if I felt like a better RP connection, say barbarian or Dwarf.
I much prefer the greater threat range of the greatsword which works well, since I have an preference for 2-handed swords regardless of the stats.
When in the hands of a WM, the keen greatswords 13-20 (x3) crit range just plain rocks and combined with good strength and 2handed damage, is plenty devastating for me. I just love critting almost every hit. Though I love archers I get so spoiled by this combo I have a hard time playing anything else.
Some will point out that against tougher creatures the threat range doesn't matter that much since you need high roll to hit and I agree. Statistically Great Cleave and a 13-20 threat range are of no help in a boss fight. They just are a blast agains all his minions on the way getting to him. 
YMMV |
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Axe Murderer
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Lié: 16 jun 2003
De: California U S A Red, White, & Bluuu |
Posté: mercredi, 21 décembre 2005 02:39 |
No contest...
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Axe Murderer's Killer Treasure Generator v1.0 |
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Edmonds10101
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Lié: 11 jan 2005
De: Yorkshire, England |
Posté: mercredi, 21 décembre 2005 03:10 |
you're one of those greatsword ones eh?
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Dwarves hate to be mistaken for Gnomes. Even Gnomes hate to be mistaken as Gnomes. They prefer people to think of them as small, effeminate Dwarves.
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MrsFitzpatrick
Lié: 14 oct 2005
De: Sweden |
Posté: mercredi, 21 décembre 2005 03:12 |
generally, a great axe. I don't remember what they look like in nwn, but I don't think the handles are long enough for the looks I want, but I'd still choose it over the sword. I believe I'd choose to use a heavy flail before both of them though. not to mention if there was a massive two-handed hammer, now that would be something.  |
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Countess Terra
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Lié: 03 jui 2003
De: My money bin swimming of course. |
Posté: mercredi, 21 décembre 2005 03:30 |
Someone did an actual damage study of the two and found the Greatsword to be better damage-wise overall.
~Terra~
_________________
When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty.
I only think about how to solve the problem.
But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. |
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VSheep
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Lié: 08 jan 2004 |
Posté: mercredi, 21 décembre 2005 04:44 |
Quote: Posted 12/21/05 15:30:18 (GMT) by Countess Terra
Someone did an actual damage study of the two and found the Greatsword to be better damage-wise overall.
~Terra~
Overall, the axe should be slightly better.
Sword: 2d6 damage, 7 average
Axe: 1d12 damage, 6.5 average
Looks a bit better for the sword? Not really, when damage reduction / resistance comes into play. The sword tends more to average damage: 1 dice combination for min or max damage, but 6 possible combinations for average (1 and 6 up to 6 and 1). With so much average damage you lose a higher percentage of your output to the reduction / resistance. The axe has a better chance to deal max or nearly max damage. Both arguments arent that important though, and even lose significance at higher levels.
Sword: 19-20/x2 crits
Axe: x3 crits
A more interesting point on the long run. On the first view, it seems pretty much the same: 2 'units' more damage. However, the sword has a minor disadvantage: if you cant hit with 19, you cant have a crit with 19. But with just 1 AB point less you wont be able to crit anyway, with neither of both weapons.
If you have to face damage reduction / resistance, you are clearly better on with axe crits.
Weapon Master with sword: 13-20/x3
Weapon Master with axe: 16-20/x4
With WM 7 you get 16 times more damage with the sword (crit range of 8 dice sides * increased damage by factor 2) and 15 times with the axe (5 * 3). The minor disadvantage of the axe is easily neutralized by the fact the sword wielder has to hit with 13 to 15 too. And he will usually get problems with it, at the first attack rolls or at the later ones.
Also, Ki damage is a bit more effective with the axe, it raises the average damage to 12, like the sword. With still superior crits.
Short summary: in my eyes the axe is slightly superior, but the advantage is so minor that even a 100% powergamer should decide this by personal taste instead of number crunching.
Personally, I would go for quarterstaff anyway.  At least if the mod is easy enough to risk it. |
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Countess Terra
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Lié: 03 jui 2003
De: My money bin swimming of course. |
Posté: mercredi, 21 décembre 2005 07:16 |
Anyone seriously considering this topic should check out this old thread, Scythe vs Greatsword vs Greataxe, particularly Syrsuro's posts on pages 3 through 5.
~Terra~
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If love can kill, then surely hatred can save. |
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xitooner
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
Mass Effect PC
Lié: 11 aoû 2003 |
Posté: mercredi, 21 décembre 2005 07:43 |
Quote:
particularly Syrsuro's posts on pages 3 through 5.
I miss Syrsuro; he was a nice mod.
I've always been a fan of consistent damage with a good ROI, and so I tend to go for Greatsword. . .but GreatAxe is cool too. When it comes to the big-damage two-handed weapons (these two and Scythe, Heavy Flail, etc) they all do just fine, and are fairly equal except for special situations. So I go for the one that best fits the Look&Feel of the character, and think no more about it.
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Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors.
Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . . |
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VSheep
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Lié: 08 jan 2004 |
Posté: mercredi, 21 décembre 2005 08:07 |
Quote: Posted 12/21/05 19:16:58 (GMT) by Countess Terra Anyone seriously considering this topic should check out this old thread, Scythe vs Greatsword vs Greataxe, particularly Syrsuro's posts on pages 3 through 5.
Ah, thanks. |
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Lowlander
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
Lié: 29 aoû 2002
De: Ottawa, Canada |
Posté: mercredi, 21 décembre 2005 10:24 |
Quote: Posted 12/21/05 16:44:19 (GMT) by VSheep
Sword: 2d6 damage, 7 average
Axe: 1d12 damage, 6.5 average
higher percentage of your output to the reduction / resistance. The axe has a better chance to deal max or nearly max damage.
For the damage resistance argument to make sense, the damage resistance must first overwhelm all your other damage modifier. Str + weapon damage magic bonus + class bonuses, etc...
Let us look at the case where the DR high enough, so you need to roll 7 to do 1 point damage: (that would likely be DR30).
Average damage per hit with DR:
1d12 - 1.75
2d6 - 1.55
This also means that a full 50% of hits for either dice set will result in zero points of damage.
Now we create the condition where 1d12 does more damage. But will it make any difference?
This only happens when your damage is almost completely resisted. In either case you are averaging under 2 points total damage against something very tough most likely. In which case you are almost certainly soon to be dead. |
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VSheep
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Lié: 08 jan 2004 |
Posté: mercredi, 21 décembre 2005 10:49 |
Quote: Posted 12/21/05 22:24:04 (GMT) by Lowlander
Average damage per hit with DR:
1d12 - 1.75
2d6 - 1.55
This also means that a full 50% of hits for either dice set will result in zero points of damage.
Now we create the condition where 1d12 does more damage. But will it make any difference?
Ok, I confirmed your numbers. You are right, the argument is even minor than I thought. |
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