Magical Master
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Joined: 31 Oct 2004 |
 Posted: Thursday, 22 October 2009 07:49PM |
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It depends entirely on the module. Usually level +3 total persuade score is decent. |
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Westan Willows
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Joined: 24 Apr 2005 |
Posted: Thursday, 22 October 2009 08:28PM |
Quote: Posted 10/22/09 19:49 (GMT) by Magical Master
It depends entirely on the module. Usually level +3 total persuade score is decent.
For a Sorc the best one can do is level +3 /2 +Modifier.
Persuade is a cross class skill.
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Magical Master
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Posted: Thursday, 22 October 2009 09:30PM |
Quote: Posted 10/22/09 20:28 (GMT) by Westan Willows
For a Sorc the best one can do is level +3 /2 +Modifier.
Persuade is a cross class skill.
And your point is? |
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The_Krit
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Posted: Thursday, 22 October 2009 11:26PM |
When did this become about what Westan Willows chooses to do? Westan Willows gets by without persuade. Fine, that establishes that persuade is not vital. But the question was not what do other people do, nor whether someone can get by without persuade skills. The question was:
Quote: Posted 10/20/09 09:04 (GMT) by Delling-M
How important is persuade and charisma in the expansion campaigns (without giving too much away)?
Persuade is not overwhelmingly important. There are always alternatives to persuade, and whether or not those alternatives are acceptable to you depends on your playstyle. Some people prefer to fight than talk their way through things, so those people would have no reason to invest in the conversation skills.
The people who prefer to talk their way through things might be disappointed by how infrequently persuade et al. are used. But I don't think the checks are so infrequent that the skills become a waste of skill points.
In the end, it's up to you as to what you want to do. If you're considering giving up a skill you like in order to give persuade a try, it's probably not worth it. On the other hand, if you have skill points left over that need to be assigned, putting them into a conversation skill could be a good idea.
As for how much skill you need, that of course depends on which check you intend to pass. Some checks are impossible to pass (literally impossible, as in there is no check made -- you just fail). Of the conversation skill checks that can be passed, the most difficult is probably a DC 35 check. (More precisely, there is a DC 35 check. Whether or not there is a harder one depends on how well I guessed which check is the most difficult.) There are also easier checks -- you don't have to aim for passing the most difficult.
Edit: Level context: The HotU campaign typically gets you up to level 27 or so? Assuming the DC 35 check is at the end (not giving away spoilers, remember  ), that would mean a skill of character level-3 to get a 50-50 shot at it. Maybe the check is earlier and you'll need more; maybe you can be successful with less. And maybe you'll be happy going after the easier skill checks, regarding the toughest ones as long shots. Up to you.Edited By The_Krit on 10/22/09 23:37 |
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Westan Willows
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Joined: 24 Apr 2005 |
Posted: Friday, 23 October 2009 03:38PM |
Quote: Posted 10/22/09 21:30 (GMT) by Magical Master Quote: Posted 10/22/09 20:28 (GMT) by Westan Willows
For a Sorc the best one can do is level +3 /2 +Modifier.
Persuade is a cross class skill.
And your point is?
"It depends entirely on the module. Usually level +3 total persuade score is decent."
By your statment I can only have a decent total persuade score at low levels. As I advance in level the gap betwen my total persuade score and level +3 total persuade score gets biger.
The_Kit answer was better. He is wrong about me though. I use persuade I just don't put points into it.(most of the time)
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Magical Master
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Posted: Friday, 23 October 2009 04:32PM |
Quote: Posted 10/23/09 15:38 (GMT) by Westan Willows
By your statment I can only have a decent total persuade score at low levels. As I advance in level the gap betwen my total persuade score and level +3 total persuade score gets biger.
Again, your point is? That's the price you pay for not having it as a class skill. |
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WhiZard
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From: Seminary of Surprises |
Posted: Friday, 23 October 2009 10:40PM |
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In this sense the wizard is the better high level persuader, as he often has the points to spend in persuade. |
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Westan Willows
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Posted: Saturday, 24 October 2009 01:15AM |
Quote: Posted 10/23/09 16:32 (GMT) by Magical Master Quote: Posted 10/23/09 15:38 (GMT) by Westan Willows
By your statment I can only have a decent total persuade score at low levels. As I advance in level the gap betwen my total persuade score and level +3 total persuade score gets biger.
Again, your point is? That's the price you pay for not having it as a class skill.
Your statment as is implies that if it is a cross class skill then it is a wast to put points into it.
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Magical Master
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Posted: Saturday, 24 October 2009 02:02AM |
Depends on the module. Let's say we have a level 17 character. The class skill character has 20 points, cross class is 10. Let's say there's a check of 31. The cross class has no chance at succeeding. Let's say it's 26 instead. That's a 75% chance for the class to succeed and only 25% for the cross class. What if we do a level 27 character? 30 versus 15. If the Check is, say, 33, then that's a 90% chance to succeed versus a 15% chance to succeed.
In other words, the higher the level, the less useful cross class tends to be in this sort of skill. Or if the checks are generally difficult.
But, like I said originally, always depends upon the module. |
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The_Krit
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Posted: Saturday, 24 October 2009 03:24AM |
Quote: Posted 10/23/09 15:38 (GMT) by Westan Willows
[The_Kit] is wrong about me though. I use persuade I just don't put points into it.(most of the time)
Not wrong, but perhaps unclear because of a missing a word or two. When I wrote "without persuade", I meant "without persuade ranks", which maybe should have been "without investing in persuade." In either case, it was not supposed to mean "without using persuade."Edited By The_Krit on 10/24/09 03:25 |
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Westan Willows
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Posted: Saturday, 24 October 2009 01:58PM |
Quote: Posted 10/24/09 03:24 (GMT) by The_Krit Quote: Posted 10/23/09 15:38 (GMT) by Westan Willows
[The_Kit] is wrong about me though. I use persuade I just don't put points into it.(most of the time)
Not wrong, but perhaps unclear because of a missing a word or two. When I wrote "without persuade", I meant "without persuade ranks", which maybe should have been "without investing in persuade." In either case, it was not supposed to mean "without using persuade."
Yes "without investing in persuade." is correct. Sorc has ranks in persuade eaquel to their CHA modifer.
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The_Krit
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Posted: Saturday, 24 October 2009 07:25PM |
Quote: Posted 10/24/09 13:58 (GMT) by Westan Willows
Sorc has ranks in persuade eaquel to their CHA modifer.
No they don't. No one gets automatic ranks in a skill. Ranks are the things you buy with skill points when you level up (and at character creation), the things to which your modifiers (including your relevant ability modifier) are added. Your sorcerer's persuade skill was equal to your charisma modifier because you had no ranks in the skill and no other modifiers were in effect. |
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Westan Willows
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Posted: Monday, 26 October 2009 02:11AM |
Quote: Posted 10/24/09 19:25 (GMT) by The_Krit Quote: Posted 10/24/09 13:58 (GMT) by Westan Willows
Sorc has ranks in persuade eaquel to their CHA modifer.
No they don't. No one gets automatic ranks in a skill. Ranks are the things you buy with skill points when you level up (and at character creation), the things to which your modifiers (including your relevant ability modifier) are added. Your sorcerer's persuade skill was equal to your charisma modifier because you had no ranks in the skill and no other modifiers were in effect.
I stand corected. I should hav said Skill Ckeck not ranks.
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CannibalBob
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From: Canada |
Posted: Tuesday, 27 October 2009 10:08PM |
I found the OC to be pretty easy; I went through it as a straight-up Monk with knockdown feat, and I was soloing the entire thing.
OC doesn't have as many nice features, like crafting, as HotU or SoU but it's still a solid campaign. It definitely has some length and the story ain't bad, albeit being forced to be a bit of a goody-two-shoes all the time. |
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